片名：与神对谈
神的道路奥秘难测 -基督教赞美诗1773章
现在出现了奥秘-《最后的话》亨利·沃德·比奇第1887
当我听到人们说"我失去了信仰" When I hear people say, "I lost faith,"
我想象得到他们放弃的样子 不再追寻 I picture them giving up, no longer able to keep looking.
我却不会这么做 It wasn't like that for me.
我甚至自私地认为经历一场战争会让我更接近上帝 I even thought, selfishly, witnessing a war would bring me closer to God.
但我祈祷的越多 似乎越没有意义 But the more I prayed, the more empty my prayers seemed.
所做的每一次祈祷 都会化为虚无 They were whispers into a void.
我在寻找一个征兆 极力寻找着 I was looking for a sign. Any sign.
但上帝没有回应我 But it was quiet.
是的 我还在这里 我在听 Yeah, I'm still here. I'm listening.
我能帮什么忙？ How can I help?
你跟退伍军人协会的人谈过了吗？ Have you talked to anyone at the VA?
他们有人... They have people who...
好吧 我明白了 No, I understand.
谢谢你这么说 但我没有... Thank you for saying that, but I'm not...
马特 我没有资格 Matt, I'm not, uh, qualified.
协会里现在有人还在工作吗？ Is there anyone at work?
我的意思是 国家安全局应该还有很多其他的退伍军人 对吧？ I mean, the NSA must be full of other vets. Right?
好的 我明白了 外表很重要 No, I get it. Appearances matter.
当然 任何事 对 Sure. Anything. Yeah.
嘿 对不起 给我点时间 等一下 Hey. Sorry. Give me a minute. I'm sorry. Hold on.
好的 Okay.
让我问问周围的人 我会找个合适的人 我会的 Let me ask around. I'll find someone good. I will.
我会尽快给你打电话 I'll call you as soon as I...
我马上就会去办公室 But I'll be in the office right after that.
会帮你找到人的？我保证 I'll get you a name. Okay? I promise.
嘿 嘿 马特 Hey. Hey. Matt.
嘿 伙计 Hey, hey, come on, man.
没事的 我在这 Come on. I was there.
我明白了 I get it.
我们会帮你的 好吗 我明天会给你打电话的 We're gonna get you some help. Okay? I'll call you tomorrow.
如果你有时间话 也许可以读一下赞美诗 Maybe read Psalms if you get a minute.
这些东西总是能帮助到我 There's some stuff in there that always helps me.
我也爱你 朋友 再见 Love you too, buddy. Bye.
我很抱歉 I'm sorry.
是你想找我谈话的 You're the one who wanted to talk.
莎拉 他在哭 Sarah, he was crying.
抱歉 你知道的 我喜欢马特 Sorry. You know, I... I like Matt.
他还好吗？ Is... Is he okay?
我不知道 呃 I don't know. Uh...
那里很糟糕 It was bad over there.
战争总是很不好的 它也影响你了 It's always bad. It was bad for you too.Yeah.
但我只是在那里写作 而不是上场打仗 这很不一样 But I was just there to write, not fight. Big difference.
听着 我真的得去上班了 Look, I really have to get to work.
-我有个 呃 采访 -采访吧 我听说了 - I got this, uh, interview. - Interview, yeah. No, I heard.
听我说 我是真的希望我们能重归于好 Hey, I want this... us to work.
告诉我该怎么做 你要我道歉多少次？ Tell me what to do. How many times do you want me to apologize?
-别再道歉了 -告诉我要怎么做 我会做的 -Stop apologizing. -Just tell me the number. I'll do it.
事情已经发生了 但我究竟要被影响多久呢？ Things happen. How many times do I have to live through it?
战争是有太多的影响 但我现在就在这里 在你身边 Things happen, but I'm here. Now. I'm back.
保罗 自从你回来后情况更糟糕了 我不想继续这样生活了 It's only been worse since you've been back, Paul. I can't live like this.
我可以改变 我可以变得更好 我想要变得更好 I can change. I can be better. I want to be better.
-我们不能解决这个问题吗？ -解决？ -Can't we fix this? -Fix?
我们婚姻中的信任已经丢失了 你该如何解决这个问题呢？ When trust in a marriage has been broken, how do you fix that?
你就因为一个错误而全盘否定？ You want to throw all this away because of one mistake?
这是我的错 有时候我脑袋不清醒 It was my fault. I get in my head sometimes.
我们能不能至少找个人谈谈？谁都行 Can we at least talk to someone? Anyone?
嘿 嘿 Hey, hey.
我们能 我们今晚能谈谈吗 能吗 Can we... Can we talk tonight? Please? Can we...
我不确定我是否还会在这里 我需要想想 I'm not sure I'll be here. I need to think.
你的采访要迟到了 我真的得去上班了 You're gonna be late for your interview, and I really have to get to work.
是的 Yeah.
早上好 Good morning.
早上好 Morning.
像钟表一样 你们两个 Like clockwork, you two.
我迟一点打给你 I'll call you later.
早上好 Good morning.
抱歉 我迟到了 Sorry I'm late. Uh...
我刚刚有点事...对不起 I had to... Sorry I'm late.
没事 只迟到了五分钟 Oh, only five minutes.
我们还有25分钟的时间 Still leaves us 25 minutes as agreed.
嗯 对 今天是三十分钟 明天和星期五也是 Uh, right. Thirty minutes today, tomorrow, and Friday.
嗯 每个人都很……呃 Mm-hmm. Everyone's, uh...
忙吗？ Busy?
是的 每个人都很忙 That's right. Everyone's busy.
你还好吗？ Are you okay?
哦 是的 没事 我很好 Oh. Yeah. Sorry. I'm great.
对不起 呃……保罗阿舍 先驱报社的 Sorry. Uh... Paul Asher. With The Herald.
呃 我知道你是谁 Uh, I know who you are.
-我知道你所有的工作 我是你的粉丝 -谢谢 -I know all your work. I'm a fan. -Thanks.
哦 Oh.
对不起 你介意我录音吗 Uh, sorry. Do you mind?
好的 一些基本规则 Okay. A few ground rules.
为了准确性 我会录下这次谈话 I'm recording this conversation for accuracy.
三次采访 今天 明天 星期五 Also three sessions... today, tomorrow, and Friday.
当我们访谈结束 我会给你看我写的东西 但是我会保留编辑控制权 When we're done I'll show you what I wrote, but I retain editorial control.
-你同意吗 -同意 -Do you agree? -Agreed.
我很期待 And I expect great things.
好吧 但不要有太高期望 Okay, but don't get your hopes up.
我负责的只是世俗小报的宗教相关栏目 I cover religion for a secular paper,
我写的东西通常都是出现在生活板块 and the stuff I write usually ends up in the Lifestyles section.
-你只是谦虚 -星座占卜的版位都比我的好 -You're just being modest. -Horoscopes get better placement.
对了 你从阿富汗发回的报道让人印象深刻 Well, the reporting you did from Afghanistan was very impressive.
-你看了吗 -仔仔细细地看了 -You followed that? -Every word.
战争中的基督徒？ Christians in combat?
那一定是一项艰巨的任务 That must have been a tough assignment.
对你来说很艰巨 对你的家庭来说也很艰巨 Tough on you. Tough on your family.
对其他人来说更艰巨 Tougher for others.
我只是在那里写写东西 I was just there to write.
但我遇到了一些很棒的人 But I met some amazing people.
嗯 我很想听听你在那边的个人经历 Well, I'd love to hear more about your personal experiences over there.
好吧 下次有机会吧 Yeah. Maybe some other time.
所以 我们也不是来这里下棋 So, unless we're here to play chess,
让我们来谈谈你 let's talk about you.
-你下棋吗？ -我？不下 -Do you play? -Me? No.
-从来没有？ -当我还是个孩子的时候玩过 -Never? -When I was a kid.
不管怎样……现在不玩了？ Anyway... But not anymore?
我父亲过去常带我来这里 My father used to bring me here.
我以前会一点 不怎么样 I used to play a little back then. Anyway...
我们可以开始吗？ Shall we?
好的 今天是6月1日 请说出你的名字并拼写出来 Okay. Today is June 1. Please say your name and spell it.
我是上帝 G-O-D I'm God. G-O-D.
好吧 很好 Okay. Great.
嗯 让我们开始吧 Uh, let's start.
谢谢你同意接受这个采访 Thanks for agreeing to do this interview.
是我应该谢谢你 Well, you agreed.
-但不用客气 -啊 But you're welcome. Oh.
我能给你拍张照片吗？当然 Can I get a shot of you? Sure.
所以 你在照片中出现没有问题 So, no problem you showing up in a photo?
我是神 不是吸血鬼 Well, I'm a deity, not a vampire.
我觉得你看起来像个普通的人类 I've gotta say, you look human enough to me.
你知道 你在我看来如神一般 And you know, you look godlike to me.
我懂 《创世纪》嘛 上帝以自己形象造人 I get that. Genesis. In his image.
这梗不错 谢谢你 That's pretty funny. Thank you.
那么 你为什么接受这个采访 So, uh, why did you agree to do this interview?
我每时每刻都在和我的子民对话 I talk to my children all the time.
-我明白了 你的意思是我是你的子民咯？ -当然 -I see. So I'm one of your children. -Of course.
好吧 不过你这口吻一般得对专门的人说 Okay, well, there's a name for people you usually talk to like this.
“幸运儿”们？ "Lucky"?
-我指的是“先知” -哦 当然 是的 -I think I meant "prophets." -Oh, sure. Yes.
不过只有在我和他们对谈之后 他们才能成为先知 而在那之前 That's what they're called after I speak to them, but before that...
他们中的很多人见到我的时候都不太高兴 至少一开始的时候是这样 Many of them weren't too happy to see me when I showed up. At least not at first.
对 Right.
燃烧的灌木 火柱 非常戏剧化的东西 A burning bush, a pillar of fire. Pretty dramatic stuff.
-我猜人们一开始都吓坏了吧 -确实 确实是这样 -I'll bet people freaked out. -Oh, they did, they did.
但是 呃 我得到了他们的注意 But, uh, I got their attention.
今天没有燃烧的灌木？ No burning bush today?
你希望有吗？ Would you like that?
这就是你真正想要的吗？ Is that what you really want?
好的 Okay.
嗯…呃 你想看到什么东西突然起火？ Um... uh, what exactly would you like to see burst into flames?
也许这个公园里的什么东西？ Something in this park perhaps?
呃 那根柱子怎么样？ Uh, how about that pillar?
或者是树 如何？ Or maybe the tree, huh?
不 当然不是 No, of course not.
好吧 这不是必要的 Well, it's not necessary.
你在这里 我在这里 我们已经在交谈了 You're here. I'm here. We're already talking.
回到我的问题 这就是为什么你在这里？因为我是先知？ Getting back to my question, is that why you're here? Am I a prophet?
你觉得你是先知是吗？ Are you a prophet?
好吧 Well...
我们在对话 对吧？ We're... We're talking. Okay?
这是一个开端 Th-That's a start.
好吧 Okay.
回到原来的话题 Circle back to that.
好吧 所以你是上帝 Okay, so you're God. The God.
用六天时间创造万物 天 地的上帝 The one who created everything. Heaven and earth in six days.
嗯 是的 但是 我现在休息了 Uh, yep. But, uh, then I rested.
很好 我要感谢你的付出 So, nice work. Thank you.
确实花了不少功夫 I try.
但这真的是你想知道的关于我的事吗 But i-is this really what you wanted to know,
一些关于我工作的传记信息？ just some biographical information about my work?
我相信你可以在书中了解到所有的东西 I'm sure you could read all about it in a book somewhere.
当然 你要知道 我的读者希望我做一些真相核查 Well, sure, but you know, my readers expect some fact-checking in my work.
“真相” 好吧 Facts. Yes.Mm-hmm.
是啊 大家总是渴望“真相” Yes, always the facts.
好的 很好 Okay. Fine.
请继续 Well, please continue.
嗯 你多大了？ Uh... how old are you?
时间对于我来说 和你们的不太一样 Time is different for me than it is for you.
因为我存在于时间之外 I mean, I exist outside of time.
毕竟我创造了时间 After all, I created time.
对 Right.
你从哪里来？ Where do you come from?
保罗 我认为如果我们不把时间浪费在已知答案的问题上 Paul, I think this interview would be more productive
这次采访会更有成效 if we don't waste time on questions to which you already know the answers.
好的 继续 Okay. Moving on.
保罗 我不是刻意刁难你 Paul, I'm not being difficult.
我只是...认为至少你应该知道 I just... I just think you of all people
为什么我的回答会令人困惑 should know why my answers might be confusing.
想想啊 如果说上帝的一切都完美得显现 I mean, if the, uh... if the nature of God were obvious...
那么请看看你周围的世界 Well, look at the world around you
你会发现并非如此 and you will see that it is not.
所以我们为了接近你所经历的大大小小 你早就看得清清楚楚？ So we struggle here on earth to know you, but I assume you know all the questions and answers.
嗯 当然 Mm-hmm. Of course.
这会让你感到不舒服吗？ Does that make you feel uncomfortable?
-但是你也会知道这个问题的答案 对吗？ -是的 -But then you know the answer to that question too, right? -Yes.
但是这个答案平凡人也能知道 But a divine perspective is not required.
你要知道 从我的角度来看问题不是一件简单的事情 Try to see this from my point of view. This is not an easy process.
确实不 No, I get it.
知道所有的问题和答案 Knowing all the questions and all the answers
反倒使人的谈话变得困难 must make human conversation kind of difficult.
对 没有人喜欢无所不知的人 Well, no one likes a know-it-all.
没错 Right.Mm-hmm.
好吧 你刚才说“至少你” All right, you said, "you of all people" a few moments ago.
“至少你应知道为什么我的话会与你们认知当中的上帝之言有出入” You said, "You of all people should know why my answers might be a little confusing."
这句话是什么意思？为什么是至少我？ What do you mean by that? Why me of all people?
你有宗教研究的学位 Well, you have a degree in religious studies
和以班上第一名毕业的 and a degree in journalism from Loyola University,
洛约拉大学的新闻学学位 where you graduated the top of your class.
你刚毕业的的时候在先驱报的 You started working at The Herald in their online division
在线部门工作 right out of college,
你在那里写关于信仰和神学的东西 where you write about matters of faith and theology.
所以你记住了我的线上档案 嗯 So you memorized my online bio.Mm-hmm.
我还了解你的婚姻 And I also know about your marriage.
什么？ Excuse me?
我了解你的婚姻 I know about your marriage.
哦 Oh.
你刚刚差点就让我信你是真的上帝了 You had me going for a second.
是吧？ Yes, I did, didn't I?
-你在等我问你 -问什么？ -You're waiting for me to ask. -Ask what?
-问证据 -啊 -For proof. -Ah.
证明你就是上帝 Proof that you are who you say you are.
是的 证明 Yeah, proof.
告诉我 保罗 Well, tell me, Paul,
当你祈祷时 你会要求证明上帝在倾听吗？ when you pray, do you ask for proof that God is listening?
不 当然不会 No. Of course not.
-那今天是你的幸运日 -怎么说？ -Then this is your lucky day. -How so?
我今天就在身边 回应你 I'm here, answering your questions.
我希望我这样做配合到你了 I hope I'm being cooperative.
你很配合 You are.
那么 我该怎么告诉那些说你不存在的人呢？ So, what do I tell the people who say you don't exist?
你告诉他们我理解 You tell them that I understand,
但他们所看到的世界就仅仅如此了 but the world they see is just that.
有时候事情就是它表面的样子 Sometimes that's just the way it looks.
这是一个很好的回复 That's a good answer.
很好 我很高兴 Good. I'm glad.
你是一个很好的采访者 保罗 谢谢 You're a very good interviewer, Paul.Thanks.
你很让人信任 相处很融洽 Yeah, you've established trust, established rapport.
而且你一点都不傲慢 Yeah, you're not at all condescending,
最重要的是你想要追求真相 and you want the truth above all else.
对 真相是一件很棒的东西 Yeah. The truth would be cool.
这可是我的专长 Well, that's my specialty.
来吧 随机的快问快答 Okay. Uh, the lightning round and in no order.
快问快答 真可爱 Lightning round. That's cute.
生命的意义是什么？ What is the meaning of life?
活着 奋斗 为上帝服务 To live, to struggle, to serve God,
然后问这样的问题：“生命的意义是什么？” and to ask questions like, "What is the meaning of life?"
摩西五经和新约是上帝的原话吗？ Are the Torah and the New Testament the word of God?
当然 但是都是人类正确理解和翻译过后的版本 Of course. But as understood by man and as translated by man.
人类的理解就没有偏差吗？ There's some wiggle room there.
没有 No.
虽然每个人都有自己不一样的旅程 但它们本质都是一样的 Well, everyone has their own journey, but there is only one path.
有没有一段时间上帝并不存在？ Was there ever a time when God didn't exist?
-好吧 我可以告诉你我给摩西的答案 -好的 - Well, I could give you the answer I gave Moses. - Okay.
我就是我 I am that I am.
对 Right.
-我早该知道的 -是的 -I should have known that. -Yes.
过去是这个答案 现在依旧没错 And it's as true today as it was back then.
-有天堂吗？ -当然 - Is there a heaven? -Oh, yes.
但是不要把它仅仅想成一个地方 But try not to think of it as just a place.
所以撒旦也是真实的？ So Satan is also real?
是的 但是坦白说 撒旦被高估了 Yes, but frankly, Satan is overrated.
被高估了吗？这是一种有趣的说法 怎么会呢？ Overrated? That's a funny way to put it. How so?
好吧 他只有你们给他的权力 Well, he only has power to the extent that you give it to him.
我们死后会发生什么？ What happens to us after we die?
成为永恒 You are reunited with the everlasting.
所以我的灵魂是不朽的？ So my soul is immortal?
如果不是 那就不是一个灵魂了 Well, it wouldn't be much of a soul if it wasn't.
-一个无神论者也能成为一个有良知的人吗？ -当然 当然 - Can an atheist be a moral person? -Sure. Sure.
你可以在没有地基的情况下建一栋房子 And you can build a home on no foundation.
但你最好还是让自己的房子有一个稳固的内核 But you just better hope that the earth never shakes.
上帝是爱吗？ Is God love?
他不自夸 但绝对是 He doesn't boast, but yes, absolutely.
2427乘以648等于多少？ What's 2,427 times 648?
1572696 1,572,696.
真的吗？ For real?
对不起 对不起 对不起 I'm sorry. Sorry. Sorry.
不 没关系 上帝原谅你 No, that's all right. God forgives.
-但这很有趣 -怎么说？ -But this is interesting. -What's that?
有很多好问题 There's a lot of good questions here,
但是你没有问我被问到过的最多次的一个问题 but you haven't asked me the one question I get asked almost more than any other.
-没有吗？哪个问题？ -猜猜看 -No? What's that? -Well, take a guess.
为什么坏事会发生在好人身上？ Why do bad things happen to good people?
-就是这个 -但这不在我的列表上 -That's the one. -No, that's not on my list.
-坦白地说 我不太喜欢这个问题 -不喜欢？ - And frankly, I don't like that question very much. - No?
为什么不喜欢？ Why not?
因为这不是一个真正的问题 这是一种抱怨 Because it's not really a question, is it? It's a complaint.
它真正的意思是 为什么坏事会发生在我身上？ What it really means is, why do bad things happen to me?
而问问题的人是假设他们是好人 And the person asking is assuming they're a good person,
这样听起来我好像很傲慢 which seems arrogant to me.
但是 保罗 But, Paul,
坏事确实会发生在一些真正的好人身上 bad things do happen to some very good people.
这是一个很广的问题 It is a big question.
是的 我知道 Yes. I know.
如果你想要我回答 我会回答的 I'll answer it if you'd like.
不 我们继续吧 No. Let's move on.
好的 Okay.
自由意志是否存在？我们如何将它与上帝的旨意调和？ Does free will exist? And how do we reconcile it with God's will?
终于 Finally.
终于？这是什么意思？ Finally? What does that mean?
它是一个副词 表示“最后” It's an adverb meaning "at last."
有意思 你知道我想问什么 Cute. You know what I meant.
你终于肯问我一些你关心的问题 No, finally you are asking me some questions you care about.
-我关心所有的问题 -也许吧 - I care about all the questions. - Well, maybe.
但你更关心其中的某些答案 But you care about some of the answers more than others.
听着 这个问题和我无关 Look, this is not about me.
真的吗？ Really?
自由意志存在吗？ Does free will exist?
我强迫你来参加这个采访了吗？ Did I force you to come to this meeting?
如果是的话 我能知道这个问题的答案吗？ Would I know it if you did?
这让我想起了一个老笑话 That reminds me of an old joke.
一个学生去找他的拉比（老师）说 A student goes to his rabbi and says,
"拉比 为什么你和其他的拉比 "Rabbi, why do you and the other rabbis
总是用另一个问题回答我的问题？” always answer my questions with another question?"
拉比回答说：“那我们该怎么回答呢？” And the rabbi replies, "So how should we answer?"
好吧 你没有因为上帝的笑话发笑 Okay. You didn't laugh at God's joke.
这说明了什么呢？ So what does that say about free will?
这说明自由意志当然存在 Of course there's free will, Paul,
每个人都知道它是真的 and everybody knows this is true.
人类法律的全部基础依赖于自由意志的存在 The entire foundation of human law depends on the existence of free will.
试着在你被指控犯罪时 Try going before a judge
站在法官面前 when you've been charged with a crime.
把你的行为归咎于上帝的旨意 Blame your actions on God's will.
看看会发生什么 See how that works out for you.
但 这是否意味着人类的所有行为都受自由意志掌控呢？ Now, does this mean that every human act is a matter of free will?
当然也不是 Of course not.
你不能用自由意志让一条被截肢的腿长出来 No more than you can use free will to grow back an amputated leg.
所以 坏事发生了 上帝会说 “嘿 伙计 别看着我 ” So, stuff happens and God says, "Hey, man, don't look at me."
不 不是这样 No. No.
你必须明白我的旨意和人类的自由意志 You have to understand that my will and human free will
并不矛盾 are not contradictory
因为它们不是同一事物的两个版本 because they are not two versions of the same thing,
但它们确实兼容 but they do fit perfectly together.
我造物的时候就是这么设计的 I designed it that way.
但如果我不知道什么时候谁是谁 该怎么办？ Yeah, but if I can't tell where one begins and the other ends...
你能懂我的意思吗？ Do you see my problem?
嗯... 我懂 Hmm. Yeah, I think I see.
-是吗？ -是的 - Do you? -Yeah.
那你认为你是不信服上帝的安排呢 Is the problem that you don't trust God's plan,
还是对你自己不够信任呢？ or that you don't trust yourself?
哦 就是说如果上帝有他的安排 我就没责任了 对吧？ Oh, great. So, if God's got a plan, I'm covered. Right?
我本应该呆在床上 因为我知道这是他计划的一部分 I should've just stayed in bed, because for all I know it's part of his plan.
你知道这不是我的意思 That's not what I'm saying and you know it.
好吧 看这里 国际象棋 对吧？ All right. Look here. Chess. Right?
每一个棋子相互作用 有规则 Pieces interact. There's rules.Mm-hmm.
它们有商有量 相互让步 There's give and take.
但是没有两个棋子可以同时占据相同的格子 But no two pieces can occupy the same space at the same time.
这和你我很像 That's a lot like you and me.
人们做出选择 People make choices,
这些选择都有后果 and those choices have consequences.
如果我的旨意存在于人类的每一个决定 And if knowing my will were part of every human decision,
这个世界又岂能这般日异月殊呢？ how would anything ever happen, hmm?
不然的话你每天早上醒来都毫无知觉 You'd be paralyzed every morning,
仅是想着是要垂直还是水平地刷你的牙齿 trying to decide whether to brush your teeth vertically or horizontally.
-所以 试着去了解上帝的旨意其实是在浪费时间吗？ -不 这不是我的意思 - So, trying to know God's will is, what, a waste of time? -No. Not at all.
保罗 我只是在提醒你那些你早已知道的事情 Paul, I'm only telling you what you already know.
你必须做出自己的选择 You have to make your own choices,
你必须靠这些选择生活 and you have to live by those choices,
无论你作决定的过程有多么艰难 no matter how you arrived at them.
嗯 Hmm.
告诉我 当你去阿富汗的时候 Tell me, when you traveled to Afghanistan,
你想过我的旨意是什么吗？ which aspects of my will did you consider?
还是说你认为这一切都是我的旨意？无所谓？ Or did you just think it's all my will, so, hey, anything goes?
我觉得实际上要稍微复杂一点 Um, I think it was slightly more complicated than that.
保罗 你走了七千英里到一个战区 You traveled 7,000 miles into a war zone, Paul.
战争会改变你 War changes people.
你出发之前就知道这趟旅行必定会对你产生影响 You had to have known a trip like that would have consequences for you,
还有你的家人 and for your family.
还是说你以为你会和一般人不一样？ Or did you think that you'd be different?
我当时希望上帝会照顾我 I guess I was hoping God would look out for me.
“希望”？ "Hoping"?
祈祷 Praying.
我为自己的安全祈祷 I prayed for my own safety.
我祈祷上帝保佑我遇到的士兵 让他们平安回家 I prayed God would watch over the soldiers I'd met and bring them home.
我祈祷我的妻子在我不在的时候会没事 I prayed my wife would be okay while I was gone.
我祈祷我不会做任何愚蠢的事...我祈祷了很多 I prayed I didn't do anything stupid. I prayed a lot.
你的祈祷有用吗？ Were your prayers answered?
我不知道 有些有 大部分没有 I don't know. Some, yes. Mostly, no.
你愿意谈谈这个吗？ Would you like to talk about that?
你是投诉部门吗？ Are you the complaint department?
因为需要我 所以我来了 I heard I was needed, so I came.
我还以为我是来做采访的 So, I think I'm here to do an interview,
但其实这是一场心理咨询 but really what this is is an intervention.
可以这么说 但和你想的不完全一样 Yes, but not in the way you think it is.
你怎么知道我怎么想？ How do you know what I think?
让我们把这个问题留到明天吧 Let's save that for tomorrow.
这场采访很诡异 This is a weird interview.
我们就把它叫做谈话吧 这样会好一点吗？ Okay, let's just call it a conversation. Would that be better?
不好意思 报社不是付钱让我来聊天的 Sorry. That's not why they pay me.
噢 这就是为什么你在这里 为了钱 Oh. And that's why you're here. For money.
为什么我们在这里？ Why are we here?
我听说你有需要我的地方 所以我来了 I heard I was needed, so I came.
一个简单的“谢谢”就足够了 A simple "thank you" would suffice.
为什么我值得你特别关注？ Why do I deserve your special attention?
你不值得吗？ Don't you?
所以你是来救赎我的 So you're here to save me.
你需要救赎吗？ Do you need saving?
不是每个人都需要吗？ Doesn't everyone?
是的 Yes.
但是这次我们要做一些不同的事情 But we're gonna do something a little different this time.
-哦？ -我来帮你 - Oh? - I'm gonna help you.
-你会帮我？ -嗯哼 - You're gonna help me? - Mm-hmm.
-我完全不懂你的意思 -我知道 - I don't understand. - I know.
我知道 I know.
但是 你总会明白的 But, uh, you will.
所以 And so...
我们没时间了 We're out of time.
好吧 All right.
明天见？ Uh, see you tomorrow?
没问题 同样的时间和地点？ Sure. Same time and place?
待定吧 Well, to be determined.
说真的 这都是怎么回事？ Seriously. What's all this about?
嗯 我们明天再谈吧 Uh, let's talk tomorrow.
你好 我是保罗阿舍 Yeah. Um... Paul Asher.
嘿 是我 Hey, it's me.
哦 嗨 Oh, uh, hi.
所以 今天早上发生了什么？ So, what happened this morning?
她离开你了吗？ Did she leave?
我不知道 呃 我不知道 I don't know. Um... I don't know.
噢 Oh.
你听起来有点 嗯 对不起 我有…… You sound a little, um... I'm sorry. I had...
我刚开始工作 我度过了一个奇怪的早晨 I just got into work. I had a weird, strange morning.
我可以晚一点见你吗？ Can I see you later?
保罗？你在吗？ Paul? You there?
哦 额 Oh. Oh.
嘿 我可以晚一点打给你吗？ Hey, uh, can I call you later?
噢 可以 好的 Oh, yeah, yeah. Okay.
-你保证？ -我保证 - Promise? -Yeah. Will do. Okay.
-保罗... -好的 谢谢 再联系 - Paul... - Okay. Thanks. Talk to you soon.
好的 再见 Okay. Bye. Bye.
嘿 加里 Hey. Gary.
嘿 Yeah, hey.
你在这里做什么？ What are you doing here?
我知道... 不好意思 Yeah, I know. I'm sorry, uh...
你还是来上班了 And yet, here you are.
你知道吗 带薪休假 You know, paid leave
意味着我们还是会付工资的 对吧？ means we still pay you, right?
是的 HR解释过 Yes. HR explained that.
从你回来后 有休息过吗？ And how much time have you taken off since you got back?
嗯... Mmm...
你的回答应该是“没有” I think the answer you're looking for is "none."
保罗 Paul.
嗯 Hmm.
你要知道 So, you know
休假不是什么丢脸的事 there is no shame in taking some time.
对吧？ Right?
是 谢谢 Yeah. Thanks.
但是我得... 你收到我的短信了吗？ Uh, but I needed to... Did you get my text?
-转移话题？ -是的 - You trying to change the subject? - Yeah.
有用吗？ It work?
-好的 我明白了 一切都好吗？ -是的 很好 - Yeah, I got it. Everything okay? - Yeah, all good.
只是今早有点疯狂 我在做一个新的采访 Just a crazy morning. I'm working on something.
我不是问这个 That's not what I meant.
哦 我状态很好 谢谢 Oh, yeah, yeah. I'm good. Thanks.
嗯 Mm-hmm.
莎拉呢？家庭？她在忙什么呢？ What about Sarah? Family? What's she up to?
她很好 She's good.
我代你向她问好 I'll tell her you asked.
-嘿 加里 打扰一下 -记得帮我问好 - Hey, Gary, excuse me. -Tell her I say hi.
你能在这里签名吗？ Can you just sign right here?
好的 Yeah.
-还有这里 -好 - And here. -Mm-hmm.
把它发出去 谢谢 Send it out. Thank you.
好的 Yeah.
那么 你需要什么？ So, what do you need?
你这是什么意思？ What do you mean?
噢 Yeah... Oh.
你今天早上发的短信 Your text this morning.
是的 Yeah.
嗯… Um...
我有一个朋友 他需要一些帮助 I have this friend and he needs some help.
嗯 “朋友” 真的吗？ Mmm. A friend. Really?
哦 不是在说我自己 是我在海外遇到的一个人 Wow. No, it's not me. It's a guy I met overseas.
他回来后就有麻烦了 He's having trouble since he got back.
-创伤后精神紧张性障碍？-我想是的 - PTSD? - I think so.
好吧 Okay. Yeah.
-他会没事吗？-我希望如此 - Is he gonna be okay? - I hope so.
我想在战争中有时难知道 I think sometimes it's just hard to see God's plan
上帝是怎么想的 in the middle of a war, you know.
嗯 那我能做些什么呢？ Yeah. So, what can I do to help?
他需要马上和一些专业人士谈话 He needs to talk to someone right away, someone professional.
我告诉他我会帮他打听打听 I told him I'd ask around.
他是个好人 是个战争英雄 He's a good guy. A war hero.
你有认识的吗？ Do you know anyone?
他不能去退伍军人管理局吗？ He can't go to the VA?
我的意思是 这就是它的意义所在 Well... I mean, that's what it's there for.
他现在在做一份机密工作 如果大家知道他有…… He's got a classified job now, so it could be a problem if people think he's...
行行行 我知道了 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
好吧 Well...
我认识一个在跨信仰中心的人 她人很不错 I know somebody over at the Interfaith Center who's pretty good.
她真的很好 当安离开我的时候我就去找过她 She's really good. I went to her myself when Ann left me.
-什么时候的事？-去年 - When was this? - Last year.
我不知道 我很抱歉 I didn't know. I'm so sorry.
啊 我没有到处宣传 Ah, well, I didn't advertise, and you were...
大部分时间不在这 所以... gone for most of it, so...
你什么也没说 You never said anything.
你还好吗 你 你看起来很好 You were fine. You... You seemed fine.
看 就是这样 Yeah, see, that's the thing.
有时候 有人遇到麻烦的时候就没有任何迹象 Sometimes there aren't signs when someone's in trouble.
所以你的朋友 这个谁... So it's really good that your friend, this, um...
马特 马特 Matt.Matt...
肯向你寻求帮助是真的很好 is reaching out to you like this.
是的 Yeah.
-那帮你问一下然后告诉你名字 -好的 谢谢 - So I'll ask and get you a name. - Okay. Thanks.
-你知道我会一直照看你的 对吗？ -嗯 我知道 - You know I got your back. Right? You know that? - Yeah. I do.
那就好 Okay.
你在忙什么？ What are you working on?
哦 呃 你不会相信的 Oh. Uh, you're not gonna believe this.
我在做一个采访 Um... I'm doing an interview.
好吧 采访谁？ Okay. With who?
上帝 With God.
真的吗？ Really?
对 真的 Yeah. Yeah. Really.
很棒 这是个很棒的主意 I love it. That's a great idea.
是吗？因为我有点犹豫了 You like it? Because I was starting to have second thoughts.
不 不 不 不 这个是为你的博客写的？ No, no, no, no, no. For your blog?
我觉得这个可以有更大的用途 Or maybe this could be something bigger.
我不明白 你是什么意思 更大的？ I don't know. What do you mean, something bigger?
打印版 第四栏 “人情味” 每周四 Print edition, column four. Human interest, every Thursday.
对 就是这个 Yes. Yes.
首页 你...你在开玩笑吧 The front page. Y-Y... You're kidding.
是时候让上帝登上首页了 About time God made the front page.
你不同意吗？ You disagree?
-不 当然没有 -那不就行了 - No, of course not. - Okay.
但是办公室其他人会怎么想呢？ But what will the office think?
你不认为这会引起一些不满吗？ You don't think it'll cause some resentment around here?
不 不会的 No, not really.
我想他们已经开始怨恨你了 I think they already resent you.Okay.
-谢谢 -有多少内容了 - Thank you. -How many words?
不清楚 No idea.
好的 没事 这个点子很好 Okay, okay, uh... This is gonna be good. This is great.
好了 现在 Okay, for now,
这是我们之间的秘密 好吗？ we'll keep this between us, yeah?
-没问题 -我来想办法 - Yeah. No problem. - Let me work on it.
好的 Okay.
与神对谈 Interview with God.
很酷 非常酷 That's very cool. Very cool.
你好 我是莎拉 Hi. This is Sarah.
请在提示音后留下信息 祝你有个美好的一天 Leave a message at the beepy thing, and have a great day.
嘿 莎拉 是我 Hey, Sarah, it's me.
嗯…我想继续我们今早的对话 Um... I wanna finish our talk.
我想我们可以解决这个问题 I think we can fix this.
请给我回电话 Please call me back.
再见 Okay. Bye.
上帝是爱吗？ Is God love?
他不自夸 但绝对是 He doesn't boast, but yes, absolutely.
2427乘以648等于多少？ What's 2,427 times 648?
1572696 1,572,696.
六百…… Six hundred...
是真的吗？ For real?
1572696 1,572,696.
哈 Huh.
莎拉？ Sarah?
我知道你是谁 I know who you are.
我知道你所有的作品 我是你的粉丝 I know all your work. I'm a fan.
在战场上的基督徒？一定是一项艰巨的任务 Christians in combat? That must have been a tough assignment.
对你来说很艰巨 对你的家庭来说也很艰巨 Tough on you. Tough on your family.
保罗 你走了7,000英里到一个战区 You traveled 7,000 miles into a war zone, Paul.
战争会改变人们 你会帮助我吗？ War changes people. You're gonna help me?
我不理解 I don't understand.
回到我的问题 这就是你来这里的原因吗？ Getting back to my question, is that why you're here?
我是先知吗？但是 保罗…… Am I a prophet? But, Paul...
坏事也会发生在一些好人身上 bad things do happen to some very good people.
至少你应知道为什么我的话会与你们认知当中的上帝之言... I just think you of all people should know why my answers might be...
问题是你不信服上帝的安排 Is the problem that you don't trust God's plan?
还是说是你不相信你自己？ Or is the problem that you don't trust yourself?
我是上帝 G-O-D I'm God. G-O-D.
这让我想起了一个老笑话 That reminds me of an old joke.
说真的 这是一切是怎么回事？ Seriously. What's all this about?
-你想看到什么东西燃烧起来呢？ -我是先知吗？ - What exactly would you like to see burst into flames? -Am I a prophet?
-这不是关于我个人的 -真的吗？人们做出选择 - This is not about me. Really? - People make choices.
-为什么我们在这里？ -这些选择有后果 - Why are we here? -Those choices have consequences.
那么 你是来救赎我的吗？ So, you're here to save me?
如果我的旨意存在于人类的每一个决定之中 If knowing my will were part of every human decision,
这个世界还会是这个样子吗？ how would anything get done?
当你去阿富汗的时候…… When you traveled to Afghanistan... Which aspects...
至少你应该知道……我也知道你的婚姻 You of all people should know... And I also know about your marriage.
所以 如果这全是上帝的旨意 我就不须负责了 对吧？我也知道你的婚姻 So, if God's got a plan, I'm covered, right? I also know about your marriage.
我们今晚能谈谈吗？我不确定 Can we talk later tonight, please? I'm not sure.
当我对婚姻的信心破灭了 你该如何解决呢？ When trust in a marriage has been broken, how do you fix it?
你要我道歉多少次？停止道歉 How many times do you want me to apologize? Stop apologizing.
我才不在乎这些盘子呢！ I don't care about the dishes!
你说不准的 You never know.
莎拉？ Sarah?
有人吗？ Hello?
谁在那里？ Who's there?
有人吗？ Hello?
嘿！ Hello!
谁在那里？ Who's there?
闭嘴！ Shut up!
早上好 Morning.
-莎拉今天呆在家里？ -是的 - Sarah staying home today? - Yeah.
身体不舒服？ Under the weather?
嗯 我想是的 Uh, yeah, I think so.
紫雏菊 Echinacea.
这就是我用的 包治百病 That's what I use.
我会告诉她的 I'll tell her.
有人吗？ Hello?
你在这里工作？ You work here?
你为什么问这个问题？ Why do you ask?
我妈妈以前在这里工作 My mom worked here.
很久以前 Long ago.
我们可以待在这里吗？ Should we even be in here?
来吧 到我这来 Come. Join me.
哦 你今天看起来不太好 保罗 Oh, you don't look so good today, Paul.
-一切都还好吗？ -我很好 - Is everything okay? - I'm fine.
你的手怎么了？ What happened to your hand?
我们开始吧 We should get started.
也许我们可以跳过今天 改到明天 这样会不会更好？ Uh, we can skip today and finish tomorrow, if that would be better.
不 没关系 我坐这里 你坐那里 No, that's okay. I'm here. You're here.
让我们 呃 回到在我们昨天结束时的话题 Let's just, uh, pick it up where we left off and...
让采访顺利进行 make it a good interview.
实际上 你昨天看起来也不太好 Actually, you didn't look so good yesterday either.
我 呃 我有点担心 I'm, uh... I'm a little worried.
说起昨天 我们跑题了 About yesterday, we got off track.
我试着变得专业点 但我们还是跑偏了 我为此道歉 I was trying to be professional, but we got off track. I apologize for that.
你不需要道歉 No apologies necessary.
你非常专业 我昨天就告诉你了 You were incredibly professional, and I said so.
谢谢 但不知怎么的 我成了被采访的人 Thank you, but somehow I became part of the interview,
这是不应该发生的 and that's not supposed to happen.
所以让我们聚焦在你身上 So let's get back to you and, uh...
让采访真正有价值 make it a good interview.
我们开始了？ Shall we?
好的 开始录音 Okay, recording.
6月2日 保罗阿舍采访上帝 June 2. Paul Asher interviewing God.
所以 我想我们昨天谈论了大部分的基础问题 So, I think we covered most of the basics yesterday.
-我们说到哪了？ -你问我为什么在这里 - Uh, where did we leave off? - You were asking me why I was here.
对 抱歉 你为什么来这里？为什么接受采访？ Right. Sorry. Uh, so why are you here? Why an interview?
我想和你谈谈关于救赎的事 保罗 I'd like to talk to you about salvation, Paul.
好的 很好的话题 算是一点进展 Okay. Good topic. This is progress.
救赎 Salvation.
-你想表达什么呢？ -你怎么认为呢？ - What do you mean by that? - What do you think I mean by that?
我并不是在刁难你 I'm not trying to be difficult,
但在讨论之前 我们应该先要确定你的想法 but we should establish what you think it is before we can discuss it.
对吧？救赎对不同的人意味着不同的东西 Right? Salvation means different things to different people.
没错 这是很私人的东西 Yes, it does. It's very personal.
这是最私人的 最终的时候…… It is the most personal, and in the end...
到了生命的最后时刻 and I mean, literally in the end,
会发现没有什么东西比救赎更加私人的了 there's nothing more personal than salvation.
只有你和你的灵魂 It's just you and your soul.
-不能比这更亲密了 -我十分同意 - Can't get more intimate than that. - Hard to argue.
所以我问你 你认为它是什么 So when I ask you, what do you think it is,
这只是为了帮助我能正确地回答你的问题 it's only to help me answer your questions properly.
这也是为什么我们坐在这里 对吧？你问 我回答 That's why we're here. Right? You ask. I answer.
好的 Okay.
拯救对不同的人意味着不同的东西 嗯 Salvation means different things to different people.Mm-hmm.
但是我是一个基督徒 所以让我从基督徒的角度来回答这个问题 But I'm a Christian, so let me answer it from that perspective.
救赎是上帝指导人回归正途 Salvation is returning to a state of perfection with the Almighty
获得永久赦免 and absolution from sin forever.
好极了 这是一个很好的定义 Excellent. That's a very good definition.
-你掌握住了核心 -谢谢 - Yes, you got right to the heart of the matter. - Thank you.
但你回避了几千年来为了达到这个结论 But you sidestepped several thousand years of disagreement
所经历的争辩与分歧 over how you actually get there.
-我和耶稣在一起 所以我不用讲这么详细 谢谢 -是吗 - I'm with Jesus, so I'm covered, thanks. - Oh.
-你确定吗？ -什么意思？ - Are you sure about that? - What does that mean?
没什么 我就问问 Nothing. I'm... I'm just asking.
就像我说的 我希望这次采访是关于你的 As I said, I'd like this interview to be about you.
我已经回答了你的问题 我们继续说回“救赎” I answered your question, so... salvation.
救赎 没问题 Salvation. Okay.
为了我们能够顺利进行这次谈话 So, for the sake of... for the sake of discussion,
假设我是一个制造商 你是一个消费者 let's pretend that I am a manufacturer and you are a consumer,
你告诉我 你会怎么评价这个产品 and you tell me, how would you rate the product.
把救赎当做一件商品？ Salvation as the product?
-你在跟我开玩笑 -不 我没有 - You've gotta be kidding me. - No, I'm not kidding.
假装这是市场调研 Just pretend that it's market research.
我敢肯定你以前做过很多次 You've done this many times before, I'm sure.
再多一次又何妨呢？ It's just another online survey.
告诉我你会如何评价这个商品 How do you rate the product?
好的 我们来看看 Okay. Let's find out.
一方面 它是有史以来最伟大的产品 On the one hand, it's the greatest product ever.
赎罪？ Redemption from sin?
在人间永世与上帝统一？哇！ Reunification with God for eternity after a lifetime on earth? Wow!
谁不想要那个产品呢？如果这个产品卖不出去 那什么都卖不出去 Who wouldn't want that product? If that doesn't sell itself, nothing ever will.
好吧 我很高兴你赞同这个商品 Well, I'm glad you approve.
-另一方面... -怎么样呢？ - On the other hand... - On the other hand, what?
另一方面 我能想到的唯一正确使用这件商品的方法 On the other hand, it's the only product I can think of
是要把它归还给制造商 where proper use involves returning it to the maker.
而这又只有一种途径 And there's really only one way that can happen.
每个人都想上天堂… Everybody wants to get to heaven...
但是没有人愿意死 没错 But no one wants to die. Exactly.
每个人都会死的这个事实减轻了这个矛盾带来的烦恼 That slight complication is mitigated by the fact that everyone will die.
所以这个商品的重点在于它存在的时间 而不是它本身的内容 So it's really just about the when... the product... not the what.
我就知道你很擅长这个 Oh, I knew you'd be good at this.
是啊 我本应该学市场营销专业的 Yeah. I should've been a marketing major.
-继续 -还有吗？ - So, moving on... - But, uh, what else?
还有？ Really?
你漏掉了一个方面 There's one aspect that you left out,
我在一开始就提到的 怎样才能得到救赎 the one that I mentioned in the first place... the how.
或者我们可以称之为说明书 把救赎继续当做一件商品的话 Or we can call it instructions, just to stay with our metaphor.
好吧 但在这之后 我们必须进行下一个话题了 Okay, but really, after this, we have to move on.
好的 Okay.
这些说明书 Okay, well, uh, the instructions.
说明书广泛提供 这很好 The instructions are widely available, so that's good.
因为圣经每年都是畅销书 但是…… Um, the Bible's a best seller year after year, but...
但是？ But...
我认为这些说明书有点让人困惑 I think the instructions are a little confusing.
好吧 从来没有人说过读懂我的旨意是件易事 Well, no one ever said knowing my will would be easy. Right.
但是了解上帝的旨意并不是问题所在 不是吗？ But knowing God's will isn't really the problem, is it?
-经文里充满了规则 -确实是这样 - The scriptures are full of rules. -Yes, they are.
我一下子就能想到10个 I can think of ten just off the top of my head.
对 但那是旧约 摩西五经 Right, but that's the Old Testament, the Torah.
新约是不同的 The New Testament is different.
-上帝派遣他的儿子来到人间 这改变了一切 -的确如此 - God gave us his son. That was a game-changer. - Indeed it was.
耶稣非常清楚 约翰福音14章第六节 Jesus was super-clear. John 14:6.
“我就是道路 若不借着我 没有人能到父那里去 ” "I am the way. No one comes to the Father but through me."
我觉得这表达的很清楚 Seems very clear to me.
-但这不可能是对的 -不对吗？ - But that can't be right. - No?
-因为每个人生而有罪 -对 - Because everyone's a sinner. - Yes.
那么如果我们靠信仰得救 仅仅靠信仰 为什么还会有人遵守其他的规则呢？ If we're saved through faith and faith alone, why would anyone follow all the other rules?
但是只凭信仰就足够了吗？ But is faith all it takes?
你是个凶手 那又怎样？骗子？没关系 You're a murderer. So what? Liar? No problem.
再比方玩弄女性的男人？ 上帝就只是说 没关系的 每个人都会犯错 Philanderer? Hey, everyone makes mistakes.
-这有什么问题吗？ -问题就在于... - So what's the problem? - The problem is...
在于？ The problem is...
-问题是什么 保罗？ -对不起 - The problem is what, Paul? - Sorry.
我们一直在跑题 我不是这个采访的主角 我们都说好了 This keeps happening. I'm not the story. We agreed.
查一下记录 我从来没有说过你不是主角 Check the record. I never agreed to that.
你到底想要干什么？真的 这到底是怎么回事？ What do you want? I mean, really. What is this all about?
好像你想从我这里得到什么 我不知道那是什么 It seems like you want something from me. I have no idea what it is.
现在你明白了为什么燃烧的灌木丛效果如此之好 我说 人们听 Now you see why the burning bush worked so well. I talk, people listen.
我同意和你见面 I agreed to meet with you
是因为这有料可挖 会是一篇很棒的报导 because it was an intriguing prospect, an idea for an interview,
我已经愿意相信你的说法了 and I think I have given you the benefit of the doubt.
但我觉得你有你自己的算盘 But it's clear to me now you had some other hidden agenda for this.
这一切 不管是什么 麻烦直接告诉我 你想从我这里得到什么？ This, whatever this is. Really, give me something. What do you want from me?
我的数学能力没有打动你？ My math skills didn't impress you?
不 那确实令人印象深刻 但也有不少人都能做到 No, that was impressive, but there are people who can do that stuff.
-好吧 -那些数学奇才之类的 - Okay. - Savants, I guess.
好的 我会告诉你的 Right. Okay. I'll give you something.
-但你可能不喜欢 -啊 终于 - But you may not like it. - Ah, finally.
说吧 Okay, hit me.
不想冒犯 但我认为你对信仰的本质有误解 All right. No offense, but I think you have a misunderstanding about the nature of faith.
我不认为我有误解 我告诉过你我一直都有信仰 I don't think that's true. I told you I've always had faith.
就是这样 There it is.
看到了吗？ You see?
“我一直有信仰” "I've always had faith."
保罗 你明白我的意思吗？ Paul, do you see what I mean?
不 不明白 你在说什么？ No, not really. What are you saying?
我们晚点再解决这个问题 Okay, we'll get back to that.
保罗 你有没有想过 Paul, do you... do you ever think
从我的角度来看 世界是什么样的？ of what the world is like from my perspective?
-从上帝的角度来看？ -嗯哼 - From God's perspective? - Mm-hmm.
坦白地说 没有 Frankly, no.
我要怎么做呢 怎么可能呢？ How would I even do that? How would that be possible?
好吧 有道理 Well, fair enough.
但是 试着想象一下你能看到每一个人的行为 But, uh, try to imagine knowing every human deed,
听到他们的每一个想法 抱负 甚至他们的自甘堕落 every thought, aspiration, uh, depravity.
但同时你也能体会到他们的孤独 But also knowing all the, uh, isolation
生命的痛苦和空虚 and the... the pain and the emptiness of life.
而你要体会遍世间每一个生命的这些种种 Now, multiply that times every human soul that ever existed.
-我可不愿意干这活 -为什么不呢？ - I wouldn't want that job. - Why not?
因为这让人难以承受 Because it would be overwhelming.
世界上充满了可怕的东西 The world is full of such terrible things.
我在一家报社工作 我每天都能看到 I work for a newspaper. I see it every day.
可怕的事情 Horrible things.
那些对正派人的打击 Things that come crashing down on decent people.
那些有尊严的人只想知道为什么会发生在他们身上 People with dignity who only want to know why it's happening to them.
我要对他们说什么？ What would I say to them?
“相信我”？ "Trust me"?
“我自有安排”？ "I have a plan"?
不用了 谢谢 No, thanks.
世界上所有的痛苦都会让我心碎 All that misery in the world would break my heart.
嗯 Mm-hmm.
但是告诉我 But tell me,
你为什么要在意？ why would you care?
好吧 你是什么意思 为什么什么？ All right, what do you mean, why?
为什么会让你心碎？ Why would it break your heart?
因为我在乎 Because I care.
我同情我的同胞们 I have compassion for my fellow human beings.
你这份良知从何而来？ And where does that morality come from?
我觉得你希望我的回答是"来自上帝" I'm sure the answer you're looking for is "from God,"
但是 说真 我不知道 but, really, I have no idea.
也许是自由意志？ Free will perhaps, Paul? Hmm?
自由意志是存在的 Free will exists.
但如果我强迫你拥有它 就没有什么良知可言了 And it wouldn't be much of a morality if I forced you to have it, Paul.
好吧 很高兴知道 我是舞台中心是吧 Okay. Good to know. It's all me.
那么 有没有什么我可能不太喜爱的故事情节呢？ So, when do we get to the part I won't like?
保罗 如果你认为信念足够…… Paul, if you think faith is enough...
明显它不够 但是如果你愿意这样认为的话 I mean, it's not, but if you do,
你会开始做一个不道德的人吗？ would you just start being an immoral person?
你怎么知道我不是一个不道德的人？因为你刚刚告诉我 How do you know I'm not an immoral person? Because you just told me.
你说你有同情心 我相信你 You said you have compassion, and I believe you.
那么 你能做什么 So, what could you possibly do
让我不能原谅你的事呢？ that would be beyond my powers to forgive you?
保罗 我刚刚问了你一个非常重要的问题 Paul, I just asked you a very important question.
我 呃 我不想谈这个 I, uh... I don't want to talk about this.
我们能换个话题吗？ Can we change the subject, please?
为什么？ Why?
为什么？因为这很私人 Why? Because it's personal.
-但你在我这里没有秘密 -不 我有 - But you have no secrets from me. - Yeah, I do.
-你没有 -我有 - No, you don't. - Yeah, I do.
我的生活不是这次谈话的主题 And my life is not the topic of this conversation.
但它确实是 保罗 我不知道我有多少机会能这么和你说 But it really is, Paul. I don't know how many more ways I can say this.
-但是你现在要认真听我说 -算了吧 - But you need to start hearing me. - Okay.
-我们今天到此为止 谢谢 -别别 - We've done enough for today. Thank you. - All right, all right.
你可以问我任何问题 You can ask me anything you want.
这就是我一直在做的事情 但我并没有得到你很好的回应 That's what I've been doing, but it doesn't really get me anywhere.
我对你自称的身份一直都很恭敬 I've been more than deferential to your claim of who you are,
但我一直在问问题 你却一直回避 but I keep asking questions, and you keep giving me these evasive answers.
你问的问题很好 You've been asking very good questions,
我在尽我所能地回答它们 and I'm trying to answer them as best I can.
-尽你所能为谁？ -当然是对你 - Best for who? - For you, of course.
如果你是这样想的 那我可以告诉你 我不喜欢 If that's what you think, then we did get to the part I don't like.
-好吧 如果不这样 事情可能会变得更糟糕 -我觉得完全不会 - Well, it can get a lot worse than that. - I really don't see how.
-好吧 那我们谈谈你的婚姻 ？ -不！ - Well, how about we talk about your marriage? - No!
不行 我们之间根本就不应该讨论这个话题！ No, we really can't, and it's inappropriate you would bring that into the conversation!
我的私生活是禁区 My personal life is off-limits,
我的婚姻就是更不能谈的禁区了 and that goes double for my marriage.
哦 你确定吗？ Oh, and you're sure about that?
你…… Are you...
是不是有人派你来的？ Did someone put you up to this? Is that...?
保罗 你只是在疑神疑鬼 Paul, you're just being paranoid.
-我只是来帮忙的 -谢谢 但我能处理好我自己的事情 - I'm just here to help. - Thanks, but I can manage my own affairs.
-哦 你可以吗？ -我能处理好！ - Oh, you can? - I can manage!
你为什么要这么做？这就是你行事的作风吗？ Why are you doing this? Is this what you do to people?
你就是到处胡说八道？ Is this what you do? Go around talking crap?
我为什么在这里？ Why am I here?
-哦 我被问过太多次这个问题了 -我为什么在这？ - Oh, I get that question too many times. - I mean, here.
在这个剧院里 为什么？ In this theater. Why am I here?
如果你接受我的话 我愿意帮助你 'Cause I would like to help you if you will let me.
谢谢 我已经搞定了 一切都在控制之中 Thanks. I've got it covered. Everything's under control.
哦 那好吧 那是 很高兴听到 Oh, okay then. Yeah. Well, that's... that's very good to hear
因为 你快没时间了 because, uh, you are about out of time.
我还有五分钟的时间 但我很乐意把时间让给下一个“先知” Oh, I had five more minutes, but I'm happy to forfeit that time to the next prophet.
不 保罗 我是说 你快没时间了 No, Paul. I mean, you are about out of time.
-你在说什么？ -字面意思 - What are you saying? - Just that.
“时间不够了” 你话里有话 你到底想说什么？ Out of time. That's cryptic. What does that even mean?
-你是说... -是的 - You're saying... - Yes.
-你是说…？-是的 - Are you saying...? - Yes.
我很抱歉 I'm very sorry.
-这是一个玩笑吧 -不 保罗 我没有开玩笑 - This is a joke. - No. No joke, Paul.
我很抱歉 I'm sorry.
病态的玩笑 Sick joke.
你为什么要告诉我这个？ Why would you tell me that?
因为你自己也这么说 保罗 Because you said so yourself, Paul.
死亡只是时间的问题 Dying is just about the when.
那么为什么就不是现在呢？ So why can't the when be now?
-这次采访结束了 -我们明天还有一次 - This interview is over. - Well, we... we still have tomorrow.
没有了！ There is no tomorrow!
我会让你知道在哪里 以防你改变主意 I'll let you know where, just in case you change your mind.
我很确定我不会 我甚至不知道为什么我同意这个采访 I'm pretty sure I won't. I don't even know why I agreed to this.
你祈祷了 保罗 你寻求帮助 You prayed, Paul. You asked for help.
这就是我来这里的原因 我认为采访会是 That's why I'm here, and I thought an interview would be a place
一个让记者会感到舒服的方式 where a journalist would be comfortable.
好吧 恭喜你 你完全错了 Well, congratulations. You got that exactly wrong.
我一点也不舒服 I'm not comfortable at all with this.
救赎是真实存在的 保罗 Salvation is real, Paul,
它仍然会发生在你身上 and it can still happen for you,
但是你需要理解一些非常重要的东西 but you need to understand something very important.
信仰不是你说有就有的东西 Faith isn't something that you can just have.
至少传统意义上来说不是的 Not in the conventional sense.
因为信仰不是一个目标 Because faith isn't the goal.
信仰是一个过程 Faith is the process.
这很像一场婚姻 It's a lot like a marriage.
你许下的誓言并不代表结束 只是个开始 The vows you take aren't the end. They're just the beginning.
这需要时间和奉献 每一天 It takes time and dedication... every day.
哇哦 Wow.
保罗？ Paul?
保罗！ Paul!
你想知道意外什么时候会发生吗？ Would you like to know when it will happen?
不想 No.
你 你在这里做什么？ Wh-What... What are you doing here?
你没有给我回过电话 You never called me back.
嗯 对 Uh, yeah.
我很抱歉 我昨天过得很糟糕 而且…… I'm... I'm sorry. I had a bad day yesterday, and...
我知道 这就是我打电话给你的原因 I know. That's why I called you.
嗨 很高兴能见到你 Hey. Hello. It's nice to see you.
对不起 我很抱歉 你好 I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Hi.
呃 我们能·· 我们能不能·· Uh, can we... can we take this...
好 Okay.
没有人知道你在哪里 你也不接电话 Nobody knew where you were, and you didn't answer your cell.
我参加了一个会议 我关机了 对不起 呃... I was in a meeting. I had it turned off. I'm sorry. Uh...
你想谈谈昨天的事吗？ Do you want to talk about yesterday?
不 不是很想 No, not really.
你不觉得我们应该谈谈吗？ Don't you think we should?
好吧 你在想什么？ Okay, what's on your mind?
你为什么这么跟我说话？ Why are you talking to me like that?
-就像我是其他人一样 -她昨天刚离开我 - Like I'm other people. - She just left me yesterday.
能给我...一些喘息的空间吗？ Can I get a... some breathing room? Please?
我知道 我只是 只是担心你 I know. I'm... I'm just worried about you.
我知道 对不起 我知道你是 I know. I'm sorry. I know you are.
只是 It's just...
你要我离开吗？ Do you want me to leave?
保罗 你知道这不是你的错 对吧？ Paul, you know this wasn't your fault, right?
这不是任何人的错 It wasn't anyone's fault.
当然这是我的错 Of course, it's my fault.
为什么一定要有一个人有错？ Why does it have to be someone's fault?
事情发生了就是发生了 保罗 Things happen in the universe, Paul, in life.
你知道 我对这个问题的看法略有不同 Well, you know, I have a slightly different perspective on that.
我知道 这是我一直爱你的原因之一 I know, and it's one of the things I've always loved about you.
你有一种我从未有过的力量和自信 You have a strength and a certainty that I've never had.
但是这次 But this...
真的是我的错 This was my fault.
为什么？ How?
我不应该去到那里 I never should have gone away.
哪里？ 阿富汗？ Where? To Afghanistan?
我太愚蠢了 我从来没有想过会发生什么 It was stupid. I never thought it through, what might happen.
我很愚蠢 I was stupid.
-你是这么想的吗？ -是的 - Is that what you think? - Yes, it's what I think.
不 No, Paul.
什么？ What?
莎拉在你离开之前就有了外遇 Sarah had the affair before you left.
哦 天哪 对不起 对不起 Oh, God. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.
我以为你知道 给我点时间 I thought you knew. Give me a minute, please.
给点时间 给我点空间！求你了 Give me a minute. Just give me some space! Please.
对不起 哦！ Sorry. Oh!
这里发生了什么？迟点给你回电话 What's happening here? Call you back.
不管是什么事 为什么非得在我的办公室？ Whatever it is, why is it happening in my office?
我很抱歉 你好 我是格蕾丝 I-I'm sorry. Hi. I'm-I'm Grace.
我是保罗的嫂子 额 萨拉的妹妹 I'm Paul's sister-in-law. Uh, Sarah's sister.
我是你姐姐的粉丝 Hi. A fan of your sister.
谢谢 我很抱歉 Thanks. Uh, I'm sorry.
我们占用了你的办公室 We totally stole your office.
是的 Yes, you did.
你能给我们几分钟吗？ Would you mind giving us a couple of minutes?
-对不起 -保罗？ - I'm sorry. - Paul?
能给我们几分钟吗？ Is that all right, Gary?
行吧 对了 我给你的朋友找到了这个人 All right. Hey, I got that name for your friend, okay?
号码就在这里 如果他方便话 他们今天就可以见他 Number's right here. They'll see him today if he can make it.
-我把它放在这里 -谢谢 - I'll leave it here. - Thank you.
他不知道 是吧？ He doesn't know, huh?
对 No.
你和别人谈谈可能会对你有帮助 It might help if you start talking to someone.
如果不是我 别人也可以 If not me, someone else.
我想和莎拉谈谈这件事 但她不回我的电话 I want to talk to Sarah about it, but she's not returning my calls.
我甚至不知道她在哪里 据我所知 她可能和那个人在一起 I don't even know where she is. For all I know, she could be with that other guy.
不 她 她没有 她没有 No, she's... she's not. She's not.
他们结束了 你怎么知道？ That's over. How do you know?
因为她和我在一起 'Cause she's staying with me.
什么？你为什么不告诉我？ What? Why didn't you tell me?
保罗 求你了 Paul, please.
你能让她给我回个电话吗？ Could you please get her to call me back?
对不起 我不能 I can't. I'm sorry.
-你必须要有耐心 -为什么？ - You've got to be patient. - Why?
你需要给她时间 给她时间？ You just have to give her time. Give her time?
多久？一天？一个星期？一个月？ How much time? A day? A week? A month?
保罗 别这样 我从18岁起就认识你了 Paul, come on. I've known you since I was 18.
莎拉嫁给你是她经历的最好的事情 Sarah marrying you was the best thing she ever did.
我们永远是一家人 And we will always be family.
这就是我今天在这里的原因 That's why I'm here today.
我不知道为什么会这样 但是 I-I don't know why this happened, but...
你真的应该和别人谈谈 You should really talk to someone.
好 我会的 Yeah, I will.
-保证？ -我保证 会的 - Promise? - I promise. Yeah.
我很感谢你的到来 谢谢 Yeah. I appreciate you coming by. Thank you.
-抱一下？ -好 - Hug? - Yeah.
嘿 马特 是我 Hey, Matt. It's me.
是的 这正我给你打电话的原因 Yeah, that's why I'm calling actually.
我等下就把号码发给你 You know what? I'm going to text it to you.
他们说如果你方便的话 今天就能见面 They said if you can make it, they'll see you right away. Today.
是的 嗯 Yeah. Mm-hmm.
好吧 祝你好运 告诉我进展如何 给我打个电话 Okay. Good luck. Let me know how it goes. Give me a call after.
好吗？ Okay?
嗯 我能请你帮个忙吗？一个大忙？ Um, can I ask for a favor? A big favor?
我在做的这个采访 越来越奇怪了 I'm doing this interview, and it's getting kind of weird.
嗯… Um...
这就是问题所在 我 我不知道 Well, that's the thing. I-I don't know.
如果我给你发一张照片 你能帮我 If I send you a head shot, could you check it out,
数据库中或是其他地方查查吗？ run it through the database or something?
可以吗？ Is that possible?
真的吗？ Really?
没有 那太好了 明天没问题 No, that's perfect. Tomorrow's fine.
好的 再见 Okay. Bye.
怎么回事？ What's going on?
-听着 我很抱歉 加里 -怎么了？ - Look, I'm sorry, Gary. - What's wrong?
采访出了什么问题吗？ Is there a problem with the story?
跟我说 Talk to me.
萨拉离开我了 Sarah just left me.
就在昨天 Yesterday.
我很抱歉 你为什么不和我说？ I'm sorry. Why didn't you say something?
自从我回来后 一切都变得很糟糕 It's been bad since I got back.
我应该说点什么 I should have said something.
但我不知道为什么... I don't know why I...
是阿富汗的缘故吗？ This about Afghanistan?
我以为是的 但现在我觉得这可能是一个更大的问题 一个以前就有的问题 I thought so, but now I think it might be a bigger problem, an older problem.
-我在试着弄明白 -好吧 - I'm trying to figure it out. - All right.
好吧 也许你该休息一下了 嗯？ Well, maybe it's time you take that break we talked about, huh?
好的 Yeah.
-好 我会的 -好 很好 - Yeah. I might. - Okay, good.
你认为你可以和萨拉重归于好吗？ You think you can fix things with her?
我不知道 也许没有我她会过得更好 I don't know. Maybe I think she's better off without me.
别这么说 Don't say that.
千万别这么想 Never think that.
你知道吗 当安离开我的时候 我...我有点失控 You know, when Ann left me, I, uh... I went a little crazy.
我以前从未有过这样的想法 I had thoughts I'd never had before.
疯狂的 怪异的想法 Crazy, weird thoughts.
你知道吗 也许有些是源于 And then, you know, maybe some of it was from,
肉体上的打击 那种受伤的感觉 like, the body blow, the hurt feelings.
但对我来说最糟糕的部分是... 一种极度的失望 But the worst part of it for me was... was this crushing disappointment.
加里 你不需要… Gary, I don't need you to-to-to...
不 听我说 听我说 No, listen to me. Listen to this.
对于我的生活会变成什么样 I always had all kind of bad thoughts
我总是有很多不好的想法 about what my life was gonna be like,
就像 就像一切可能的坏事 like... like what could happen.
贫穷 可怕的疾病 凡是你能想到的坏事 I mean, poverty, horrible illness. You name it.
但我从没想过我的婚姻会失败 But I never once imagined that my marriage might fail.
该怎么形容我自己呢 天真？ What is that, naive?
是吗？ Is it?
为什么我会觉得我能对此免疫呢？ I mean, really, why couldn't it happen to me?
就因为我有信仰？ Because I have faith?
这让我很特别吗？ Does that make me special?
-难道不是吗？ -是的 - Well, doesn't it? - Yes.
确实让我变得特殊 That's exactly it. It does.
正是信仰拯救了安和我 And it was faith that rescued Ann and me.
当然 我们需要帮助 需要时间 Sure, we needed help, and it took time,
但当我们需要上帝的时候 他就在我们身边 but he was there for us when we needed him.
所以 你要努力尝试 So, you've just got to get right.
是的 我知道 我在努力 Yeah, I know. I'm trying.
你还爱着莎拉？ You still love Sarah?
-你知道我爱她 -好 好的 - You know I do. - Okay. Okay.
找到希望并解决这个问题 Then find your hope and fix this.
你可以做到的 You can do it.
如果时间也是一个因素呢？ What if time were a factor?
什么？你在说什么？ What? What is it? What are you talking about?
对不起 当我没说 I'm sorry. Forget I said that.
只是 这个采访 It's just... Gary, this interview.
有点...我不知道 It's... I don't know.
在吞噬我 It's... eating me up.
-你最近几天就是在忙这个吗？ -是的 - Is that where you've been the past couple days? - Yeah. It is.
真的有这个采访？ It's really an interview?
是的 是的 Yeah. It is. Yeah.
和上帝？ With God?
好吧 Okay.
你已经把它推荐给印刷版部门了吗？ You already pitched it to the print edition, didn't you?
对 Yes.
-他们很喜欢 -加里 看着我 - And they loved it. - Come on, Gary. Look at me.
我的妻子刚离开我 我在你的办公室里哭 My wife just left me. I'm crying my eyes out in your office.
我现在可能需要处理一些别的事情 It's possible I might need to deal with some stuff right now.
听着 你自己安排好 Listen, you sort it out.
首要是照顾好你自己 You take care of you first.
记得 你要努力尝试 And remember what I said. Get right.
-谢谢 -没事 - Thanks, Gary. - Yeah.
快点 接电话 接电话 Come on, pick up, pick up.
我差点就接了 我想和他说话 I just nearly picked up. I wanted to speak to him.
那你为什么不呢？ Then why didn't you?
因为我亲手毁了我的婚姻 Because I destroyed my marriage.
莎拉 Sarah.
萨拉 我陷入了挣扎 我得跟你谈谈 Sarah, I'm struggling here, okay? I have to talk to you.
你能马上给我回电话吗？ Could you call me back right away?
这很重要 It's important.
请给我回电话 Please call me back.
再见 Okay. Bye.
喂 你在干… Wait. What the...?
有多少男人会重新接纳一个出轨的妻子？ How many men take back a wife that cheated?
他要么在忙工作 要么泡在神学图书馆 He was either working or at the theological library.
他不再去教堂 也不去社团 因为他失去了信仰 He stopped going to church and his men's group because he lost faith.
而这一切都是我造成的 I made it about me.
他当时不在你身边 He was gone.
-你不知道我做了什么 -我知道你是有血有肉的人 - You don't know what I did. - I know you're human.
你了解我 对吧？ You know me, right?
你知道我不相信那些向耶稣祈祷的废话 You know I don't believe in all that pray-to-Jesus crap,
但是 也许你应该试试 but... maybe you should.
你是在建议我祈祷？ You're telling me to pray?
又不会有损失 Can't hurt.
它不能逆转我所做的一切 It can't reverse what I did.
已经做过的事就再也回不去了 There's no going back from what I've done, ever.
好吧 All right.
为什么他要出现在我面前而不是静静旁观？ Why is he showing himself rather than being hidden from me?
我对自己来说是什么？没有人爱我 What am I to myself? No one loved me.
我是谁？ Who am I?
好吧 Okay.
你能听到我说话吗？ Can you hear me?
为什么？因为这很私人 Why? Because it's personal.
但你在我面前没有秘密 But you have no secrets from me.
-不 我有 -你没有 - Yeah, I do. - No, you don't.
是的 我有 我的生活不是这次谈话的主题 Yeah, I do. My life is not the topic of this conversation.
但它确实是 But it really is, Paul.
我不知道我还有多少机会可以这么说 但你需要认真听 I don't know how many more ways I can say this, but you need to start hearing me.
好的 Okay.
-今天的采访到此为止 谢谢 -别别 - We've done enough for today. Thank you. - All right.
-欢迎回来 -谢谢 - Welcome back. - Thank you.
我还有一些问题要问 I have some more questions.
今天是我们最后一次采访 Today is our last interview,
我想得到一些结论 and I want to come to some conclusions.
很好 我也是 Good. So do I.
-我能搞定 -好吧 - I got it. - All right.
谢谢 Thank you.
好的 开始录音 星期五 6月3日 Okay, recording. Friday, June 3.
最后一次采访 Last interview.
你的意大利语很好 我在洛约拉罗马读过大三 Your Italian is very good. Loyola Rome, junior year abroad.
很不错 时间花得很好 Well, that's time well spent.
你昨天给了我一些很令人不安的消息 You gave me some pretty disturbing news yesterday.
这是消息吗？ Was it news?
你一直在说 你在这里是因为我祈祷了 你来这里是为了帮助我 You keep saying that you're here because I prayed, that you're here to help.
-对 -但你告诉我我要死了 - That's right. - And yet you told me I'm gonna die.
-这对我有什么帮助？ -你是一个记者 - How does that help me? - You're a journalist.
你肯定会意识到最后期限的价值 Surely you appreciate the value of a deadline.
嗯 Hmm.
-对不起 我知道这么说你才会回到这里 -所以你这是在操纵我？ - Sorry. I knew it would get you back here. - So it was just manipulation?
不 应该说是动机 而你也确实来了 No, motivation is the word I'd use, and here you are.
-你是在强迫我来？ -是的 当然 - You were pushing me? - Yes, of course.
就像你从一开始就逼迫我一样？ Like you've been pushing me from the start?
-你可能确实需要别人推你一把 -这是你的工作吗？ - Well, maybe you needed a push. - Is that your job?
保罗 我告诉过你 我在我的子民的生活中扮演着一定的角色 Paul, I told you, I play an active role in the lives of all my children.
所以 我们不要再浪费时间在你已经知道的事情上了 继续吧 So let's stop wasting time on things you already know, and let's move on.
可以吗？ Shall we?
你可以把第一个问题从你的清单上划掉了 And you can cross that first question off your list.
上帝只是一个钟表匠吗？ Is God just a clockmaker?
现在你知道了 Now you know.
所以 当上帝回应你的祈祷时 它就是这样运作的 So, this is how it works when God answers your prayers?
-我从没说过我是来回应你的祈祷的 -对 - I never said I was here to answer your prayers. - Right.
你说你来只是因为我祈祷了 所以你应该能看到我的困境 You said you came because I prayed, so maybe you can see my confusion.
但显然你来只是为了传递一些坏消息 对吧？ But apparently it was just to deliver some bad news, right?
-但你知道吗 我感觉很好 -哦？ - 'Cause, you know, I feel fine. - Oh?
哦 你是来跟我讨价还价的吗？ Oh, are you here to bargain with me?
-不 -那很好 - No. - Well, good.
好 那我们继续 Good. Then let's move on.
当然 Sure.
-让我们来谈谈救赎吧 -这不在你今天的问题清单上 对吧？ - Let's talk about salvation. - That's not on your list for today, is it?
-确实不在 -不管怎样 我们昨天讨论过了 - No. - Anyway, we discussed it yesterday.
-我还有一些问题 -我以为我们已经讨论得差不多了 - I have more questions. - Oh, I think we covered it pretty well.
-这是一个很广的话题 -哦 我知道 - It's a big topic. - Oh, I know.
-我的读者也十分感兴趣 -我也是 - A big topic for my readers. - Mine too.
那有什么问题吗？ Okay. So, what's the problem?
显然 我们昨天的谈话对你来说似乎不够 Apparently, we didn't delve deeply enough.
我感觉太具有个人针对性了 Well, you know, now it feels just a little more personal to me.
我同意 I thought it might.
真的吗？就这样？ Really? That's all you got for me?
-你还想要什么呢？ -我不知道 一些确切的答案 - What more do you want? - Oh, I don't know. Some answers.
你能再说一遍问题吗？ What was the question again?
呵 真棒 看 这就是让好人发疯的原因 Oh, that's just perfect. See, this is what drives good people nuts.
我们试着成为好人 试着取悦你 We try to be good people, try to please you,
我们需要一些答案的时候 你去了哪里？ and we need some answers, and where did you go?
你知道这感觉像什么吗？就好像你每天都在被审判一样 Do you have any idea how that feels... like you're being judged every single day?
我们想要的只是内心的平静 All we want is some peace of mind,
但你就好像是个宇宙警察 人类找点乐子你都要管 but it's like you're... I don't know... some cosmic killjoy.
很好 很好 我们有了一些进展 Good, good. Well, now we're getting somewhere.
我不觉得 Doesn't really seem like it.
保罗 你认为救赎是一种负担吗？ Paul, you think salvation is a burden?
-对 -但它不是 它是一份礼物 - Yes. - But it's not. It's a gift.
你的观点和我记得的我的主日学校教育有点不同 You and I remember my Sunday school education a little differently.
-好吧 让我来帮你梳理一下 -请 - All right. Let me try to clear it up for you. - Please do.
-你是我的子民 -你说是就是吧 - You're one of my children. - So you said.
当你还是个孩子的时候 你的父母给你定了一些规矩 对吧？ Now, when you're a child, your parents have rules, right?
当然 Of course.
现在 当你长大了 发生了什么？ Now, as you grow up, what happens?
-你问我的父母？ -是的 你和你的父母之间的关系有什么变化？ - You mean, with my parents? - Yes. What changes for you, with your parents?
我不知道 规则少了 责任多了 你是想听这个吗？ Uh, I don't know. Less rules, more responsibilities. Is that what you mean?
-是的 还有更多的自由 不是吗？ -当然 - Yes, and more freedoms too, right? - Sure.
那么...你明白了吗？ So... I mean, do you see?
没有！你……我很抱歉 我们…… No! What do you... I'm sorry. Are we...
我还在讨论救赎还是…？ We're still talking about salvation or...?
那好让我把它放在圣经的背景下 All right. Let me put it in a biblical context.
在早期 人们是邪恶的 In the early days, men were wicked.
是的 这对他们来说不是太好 Yes, and that didn't work out too well for them.
对 就像现在一样被救赎是不可能的 No, salvation wasn't possible then like it is now.
但我给了你另一个机会 一套新的规则 But I gave you another chance. A new set of rules.
摩西 没错 Moses. That's right.
现在 规则很明确 Now, the law was clear,
但通往我的道路仍然是崎岖而艰难的 but still the path to me was indirect and difficult.
而这一切在耶稣诞生地发生了改变 But all that changed one day long ago in Bethlehem.
这是一个好消息 但这也是一个新契约的开始 And it was good news. But it was also the start of a new covenant.
-一种新的方式 -是的 - A new way. - Yes.
例如 摩西有十诫 For example, Moses had ten commandments,
但后来耶稣只提到了六诫 but later Jesus only mentioned six on two occasions.
-我知道这个争议 -很好 - I know the controversy. -Yes.
现在 当被问到一个人如何才能进入天堂时 耶稣说：“不可杀人” Now, when asked how a man can enter heaven, Jesus said, "You shall not murder.
不可偷盗 不可奸淫 You shall not steal. You shall not commit adultery.
不可作假证 You shall not bear false witness.
尊敬你的父母 爱人如己 Honor thy father and mother. Love your neighbor as yourself."
这在马太和马可福音中有 我知道 In Matthew and Mark. Yes, I know.
-他把四诫省略了 -前四诫 我知道 - He left four off the list. - The first four. Yes, I know.
是的 这四诫是讲该如何处理人与上帝的关系的 Yes, the four that deal with man's relationship to God.
这说明了什么？ Now, what does that tell you?
-应该不只是印刷出错了吧 -认真想想看 -I'll assume it's not a typo. - Now come on. Think about it.
更有可能的是 耶稣只是忘记了十诫中的四条 What's more likely... Jesus just forgot four of the Ten Commandments,
或者耶稣知道世界在变 他在改变世界 or Jesus knew the world was changing, that he was changing it,
他觉得他不需要提醒他的追随者 and he didn't feel he needed to remind his followers
安息日是神圣的 亦或是只有一个真正的神？ that the Sabbath Day is holy, or that there is only one true God?
-那他说的对吗？ -关于什么？ - And was he right? - About what?
-只有一个神 -看看周围 - God. - Well, look around.
现在还有很多多神论者吗？ Know many polytheists these days?
除了我以外，你不可有别的神 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
你也可以把这个问题从你的清单上划掉了 And you can cross that question off your list as well.
我的问题是“你是真神吗？” Are you the one true God?
现在清楚了吗？ Are we clear?
这一切都很有趣 但我仍然没有看清我自己的问题 This is all very interesting, but I still don't see the me in it.
好吧 这个说怎么样? Okay. How's this for a headline?
你的人生不是来生的试镜 Your life is not an audition for the afterlife,
如果你可以停止担心 and if you can stop worrying about that,
你可能还有时间做其他的事情 you just might have time for other things.
比如爱一个人 过你自己的生活 Things like loving one another and living your life.
-不管能活多久 -是的 - However long that is. - Yeah.
保罗 我给了你一份很好的礼物 Paul, I've given you a great gift.
一个新的理由 一个新的责任 A new justification, a new responsibility.
但你得先接受我的礼物 以免为时过晚 But it's up to you to receive my gift before it's too late.
看 See, right there.
你说你是来帮助我的 但这听起来这像是一种威胁 You say you're here to help me, but that kind of sounds like a threat.
为什么我不能同时做两件事 嗯？ Why can't I do two things at the same time, hmm?
千百年来 保罗 For thousands of years, Paul,
我一直想帮你找通往我的路 I have been trying to help you find your way to me.
我总是成功吗？好吧 问诺亚 Now, did I always succeed? Well, ask Noah.
那时候我的复仇心是不是太大了？也许吧 Was I too vengeful back then? Maybe.
但没有真正的威胁就没有最终的结果 But there's never a real threat without a real consequence.
所以 你是来威胁我的 So, you are here to threaten me.
你真的是这么想的吗？ Is that what you really think?
不管怎样 我希望能有一个比诺亚时代更好的结果 Either way, I'm hoping for a better outcome than in Noah's day.
我也希望 他们可是经历了一场洪水 Oh, me too. Back then, it took a flood.
而现在只有你和我在这个房间里还有那个数字录音机 Now it's just you and me in this room with that digital recorder.
你不会想到神会介入 是吗？ Not what comes to mind when you think divine intervention, is it?
对 没有想过 No, not really.
我的编辑担心我会有危险 You know, my editor was worried that I'm in danger.
我也有同样的担忧 I have the same concern.
我想他……我想他是指来自你的危险 I think he... I think he means danger from you.
我有危险吗？ Am I in danger?
在过去的三天里 我们一直在谈论什么 保罗？ What have we been talking about for the past three days, Paul?
-你 -别说了 - You. - Stop.
-是你 -拜托 - You. - Please.
-你是那个... -停 拜托 停下来 - You're the one... - Stop. Please, stop.
-再说一次？ -停！ - Pardon me? - Please stop!
-你很沮丧 -是的！已经三天了 我当然不高兴 - You're upset. - Yes! It's been three days. Of course I'm upset.
你认为我的反应会是什么？ What did you think my reaction would be?
-但你预料到了 不是吗？ -是的 - But you knew that, didn't you? Didn't you? - Yes.
-所以你承认咯 -我很惊讶你能坚持这么久 - So you admit it. - I'm amazed you lasted this long.
保罗 Paul.
你认为你在对全能的上帝进行采访 You thought you had an interview with the Almighty.
没有一个头脑正常的人会相信这一点 No one in their right mind would believe that.
但是你还是来了 还来了三天 But here you are, day three, back for more?
别跟我说你只是觉得 “这会是一个好故事” And please, don't hand me, "I thought it would be a good story," please.
-可惜我是这么想的 -保罗 - Yeah, well, I did. - Paul.
你显然正处于一场危机之中 You are clearly in the midst of a personal crisis.
所以 我来了 我向你提供了一个对谈的机会 So, I come along, I offer you an interview with God,
你来就仅仅是为了写一个故事吗？ and that's all it takes for you to bite?
真的吗 保罗 你有没有看清楚你自己的问题？ Really? Paul, what does that tell you about yourself?
-这不公平 -不公平？ - That's not fair. - Fair?
这几天我一直在帮你忙 保罗 I've been doing you a favor these past few days, Paul.
我已经给了你一些其他的东西让你去思考 而不让你为当下生活所困 I've given you something to think about other than your own life.
这是一个什么复杂的骗局吗？ So what, this is some big, elaborate con?
这真的会让你感到惊讶吗？ Oh, would that really surprise you?
我真不敢相信 你告诉我你是上帝 I can't believe this. You told me you were God.
没错 That's right.
如果你不希望它是真的 你和我现在就不会在这里 And if you didn't want it to be true, you and I would not be here right now.
-你刚刚忘记关机了 -是的 - You forgot to turn off your phone. - Yeah.
-现在你要离开了 -是的 - And now you're leaving. - Yes.
-打扰一下 -嗨 - Oh, excuse me. - Hey.
-嗨 - 你需要什么帮助吗？ - Hi. - Yes. What do you need?
-我刚在这个房间里 22号房 -在那个房间里？ - Uh, I was in this room, 22. - Uh, sorry. In that room?
是的 你知道这是谁的办公室吗？ Yeah, do you know whose office this is?
我以为那是存储室 不是吗？ I thought that was storage. No?
呃 Uh...
随便吧 What do you know?
呃 你在找谁？ Uh, who are you looking for?
也许他们能给你拿钥匙过来 Maybe they have the keys.
呃 没关系 谢谢你 Uh, never mind. Thank you.
-你到底是谁？ -请坐 保罗 我们谈谈吧 - Who are you? - Have a seat, Paul. Let's talk about it.
-不 告诉我你是谁 -我真的认为你应该…… - No. Tell me who you are. - I really think you should...
-你是谁？ -你知道我是谁 - Who are you? - You know who I am.
-“谎言王子”？ -回想过去的三天 保罗 - The prince of lies? - Think back over the past three days, Paul.
-我有撒过一个谎吗？ -有 - Have I told you one lie? - Yes.
-不 我不知道 -好吧 哪一个？ - No. I don't know. - Well, which is it?
我不知道！你所说的一切都可能是谎言 I don't know! Everything you said could have been a lie.
但每个字都是真的 你知道的 But every word was true, and you know it.
你告诉我你是上帝 是的 You told me you were God.Yes.
-上帝 -没错 - TheGod. - That's right.
坏消息 据我朋友说 你已经死了 Bad news. According to my friend, you're dead.
我明白 但有时候事情不仅是它表面的样子 I understand, but sometimes that's just how it looks.
我向你保证 上帝活着 I promise you, God lives.
我真不敢相信我竟然同意了 你为什么要联系我？ I can't believe I agreed to this. Why did you even contact me?
你联系了我 You contacted me.
-你在说什么？ -我没说错 - What are you talking about? - You did.
什么？你联系了我 三天 三次采访 三个地点 What? You contacted me. Three days, three interviews, three locations.
-我是怎么做到的？ -什么？你联系了我！ - And how did I do that? - What? You contacted me!
我是怎么联系你的？ And how did I contact you?
我是打电话给你还是给你发消息了？电子邮件吗？微信？ Did I call you or send you a letter? Was it an e-mail? Snapchat?
怎样？ How?
你…你…… You-You... You s...
我不知道 I don't know.
保罗 想想看 Paul, think about it.
不 这是不可能的 No, this can't be happening.
但事实如此 But it is.
所以 你为什么不坐下来 我们可以谈谈 So please, why don't you sit down, and we can talk about it.
-我只是来帮你的 -帮忙？ - I'm just here to help you. - Help?
是的 真是个笑话 你帮我什么了？ Yes. That's a laugh. How have you helped?
阻止你做一个非常糟糕的决定 确保你的安全 By stopping you from making a very bad decision, by keeping you safe.
-我的安全？ -是的 - Safe? - Yes.
-你告诉我我要死了 -对 - You told me I was gonna die. - Yes.
-你本来打算告诉我具体什么时候 -是的 但是你已经知道了 - You were gonna tell me when. - Yes, but you already knew.
你在说什么？我怎么知道？我怎么可能知道？ What are you talking about? How could I know? How could I possibly know?
-你知道什么时候 -我怎么知道？ - You knew exactly when. - How could I know?
因为是你自己作出的决定 保罗 Because it was going to happen by your own hand, Paul.
不可能 No.
不 你什么都不知道 No, you don't know that.
人们遇到麻烦时并不总会有迹象 There aren't always signs when someone is in trouble.
但你不能躲着我 But you can't hide from me.
你为什么要这样对我？ Why are you doing this to me?
你只是迷失了方向 You've just lost your way.
-不 是你让这事发生在我身上的 -我做什么了？ - No, you let this happen to me. - How so?
我祈祷过 我祈祷了 I prayed. I prayed.
我知道 我请求你的帮助 I know. I begged you for help.
你认为坏事发生在你身上是因为我不在乎？ And you think bad things happen to you because I don't care?
-你视而不见 -坏事情总会发生 - You didn't listen. - Bad things happen all the time.
每一天 每一刻 Every day. Every minute of every day.
你知道的 你自己说的 You know that. You said it yourself.
这确实很令人伤心 And it's very sad.
但事实是 大多数人似乎只注意到他们身上发生的 But the truth is, most people only seem to notice bad things
不好的事情 when they happen to them.
也许这是最悲伤的部分 And maybe that's the saddest part of all.
你真的需要坐下来 You really need to sit.
你为什么不帮我们？ Why don't you help us?
我听到了你的祈祷 我听到所有人的祈祷 I hear you. I hear it all.
战争 饥饿 贫穷 Why is there war, starvation, poverty,
疾病 火灾 洪水 disease, fire, flood,
一个孩子的失踪 一个失去希望的人 a child goes missing, a man loses hope?
-做点什么！ -是你该做点什么 - Do something! - Yes, do something.
你比你以为的要强大得多 保罗 You have more power than you know, Paul.
食物可以生长 疾病可以治愈 战争会结束 Food can be grown. Diseases can be cured. Wars ended.
一个有麻烦的退伍军人可以得到帮助 A troubled veteran can be helped
一段婚姻能被挽回 and a marriage saved.
所以 当你问我为什么这些坏事会发生 So, when you ask me why all this is happening,
从互相注视开始 start by looking to each other.
-那时候我就会在你身旁 -不 我需要一个奇迹 - And that's where I'll be. - No, I need a miracle.
好吧 奇迹每天都在发生 有时候…… Well, miracles happen every day. And sometimes...
求你了 Please.
有时候奇迹就是你自己 Sometimes the miracle is you.
发生了什么？ Wh-What's happening?
你永远不会知道 You never know.
不 No.
不要 No.
-我的救赎 -给自己一点时间 - My salvation. - Give it time.
我告诉过你 I told you,
有时候 一些好人也会遇到坏事 sometimes bad things do happen to some very good people.
我想我也只能走回家了 Guess I'm walking.
嘿 马特 今天怎么样？ Hey, Matt. What happened today?
很好 Great.
哇 那太棒了 Wow, great!
不 不 别客气 只是一个电话号码 No, no. It's fine. Just a phone number.
好的 Okay.
这是一个奇迹 奇迹 It was a miracle. It was a miracle.
谁说不是呢 对吧？ Who am I to say it wasn't, right?
不 这是你是应得的 No, you were due.
莎拉？ Sarah?
好 我会告诉她的 Yeah, okay, I'll tell her.
对 我会告诉她的 嗯 Yeah, I will tell her. Yeah. Yeah.
我很高兴 我为你感到高兴 I'm glad. I'm very happy for you.
当然 Of course.
好了 兄弟 再见 All right, brother. Bye.
回头见 拜 See you soon. Bye.
嗨 Hi.
很高兴能见到你 It's good to see you.
你的自行车呢？ Where's your bike?
不知道 No idea.
发生了什么？ What happened?
它只是 呃 不见了 It's just, uh, gone.
-你喜欢那辆自行车 -只是一辆自行车罢了 - You love that bike. - It's just a bike.
你的手怎么了？ What happened to your hand?
啊 呃……我打碎了一个翡翠杯 Oh, uh... I broke one of the jadeite cups.
-你还好吗？ -还好 它会痊愈的 - Are you okay? - Yeah, it'll heal.
不好意思打烂了你的杯子 Sorry about the cup.
就一个杯子而已 It was just a cup.
你还好吗？ Are you okay?
还好 Yeah.
听着 我…… Listen, I...
我是来道歉的 I just came to apologize.
我很抱歉 I'm sorry.
我很惭愧 I'm so ashamed.
我爱过你 I loved you.
我依旧…爱你 I still... love you.
我原谅你 I forgive you.
我该走了 I should get going.
-拜 -等下 - Bye. - Stop.
我可以问你些事吗？ May I ask you something?
你觉得你今天会回到这里 Do you think that you coming back here today
是 is a...
是种征兆吗？ was some sort of sign?
莎拉！你好了 我说的没错吧 Sarah! You're back. Told ya.
紫雏菊是个好东西 Echinacea. Stuff's great.
-紫雏菊？ -是的 这是一种奇迹的药物 - Echinacea? - Yep. It's the miracle cure.
奇迹 它们每天都在发生 Miracles. Hey, they happen every day.
我们能谈谈吗？ Can we talk?
去里面？ Inside?
嗯 当然 Uh... yeah.
好啊 I'd like that.
莎拉 Sarah.
我也爱你 I love you too.
如果你不是诚心地相信着 那么就算拥有信仰也没有什么价值 Having faith isn't worth much if you don't really believe.
我一直在祈祷 I kept praying, sure,
但我当时对周遭不再认真去看 甚至不再认真去听 but I stopped looking or even listening.
如果你不能宽恕自己 那还有什么事是你能做的呢？ What could you possibly do that would be beyond my powers to forgive?
所以 是的 我现在明白了 So, yeah, I see it now.
这绝对是一个征兆 Definitely a sign.